• December 5, 2025
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Counselors, Cookies and Conversation Series
Connecting through Vulnerability
Steve Donovan, MEd, LMHC Less Than No More Counseling
I had the honor to bake and deliver cookies for counselor, Steve Donovan, MEd, LMHC.  When I walked into Steve’s office, I was reminded how inviting it must be for a client to enter similarly and experience the gentleness of his spirit, his genuine quest to hold space and to follow the pace of the client’s healing.   I walked away, not only with this sensed experience and with a reminder about how vulnerability intersects, both personally and professionally, as well as the connection that happens on a larger scale, when one person relates to another vulnerably.
I knew when I had a chance to sit with Steve, I wanted to know more about the title of his practice, Less Than No More Counseling.  He explained that “People carry around a lot of shame and can be held hostage by self-defeating core beliefs. Sometimes, it requires a cognitive response and often it is somatic.”  Less Than No More Counseling is focused on assisting clients to put to rest, “less than” beliefs and perceived barriers that do not serve a person.  Steve related what a great honor it is to support clients to begin to let go of negative core beliefs and embrace a sense of feeling more whole as a person.
Steve has a history of counseling men in the prison system and moved to private practice in the last couple years.  He continues to primarily work with men.  He often partners with other counselors working with couples and will provide counseling for the male partner.  He utilizes modalities such as Cognitive Behavior Therapy (CBT) and Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT), teaching clients how to manage distressful emotions and reframe thinking.  Steve related, “It almost always comes down to trauma. Reorganizing that and healing to relate in a more adaptive way.”
Greatest Learning Professionally and Personally
Steve shared that as a counselor, he has had to learn to sit with uncomfortable silence, to develop an acceptance around ambiguity and to follow the pace of the client. He also has learned to be mindfully aware, sharing a technique he uses to work on his own discomfort by saying to himself, “Let’s just give that a minute,” allowing for the silence and what may come next.
Steve also reflected that he has learned when and how to use vulnerability, both personally and professionally. Professionally, “If it is for the benefit of the client, then it is appropriate. If it is for me to hear the sound of my own voice, then no.” He also related  how he knows that trust has been developed within the therapeutic alliance when his clients are able to be vulnerable.
Steve also spoke about vulnerability within the counseling community.  He is an introvert at heart and described how this makes networking a challenge for him.  He explained that he chose to conduct outreach to other counselors, despite this.  “Courage is moving forward when you feel afraid or it feels risky.” In reaching out, he has found like- minded people and a sense of community. I especially appreciated him saying in relationship to making these connections, “Acceptance is life giving.”
 “A lot of us come into this profession, working on ourselves. Feeling less than is something I struggled with in my younger days. Talking to a younger client, saying more that it (big feelings) won’t go away entirely. It goes down in frequency and severity. It is very much a part of being human.”
In his personal learning with vulnerability, “There is something in our culture, especially with men, that vulnerability is equated with weakness, when in fact, another guy is vulnerable with me, it is attractive. Most people honor vulnerability. They don’t want to extend it to themselves.”
My Takeaway
When I deliver cookies and then ask counselors, in return, for their greatest learning, I have come to find that this can be a very vulnerable process.  Especially since I am going to write about this and put it out to a larger forum.  I appreciate that Steve was willing to share about his own challenges.  I was struck by what he models and especially as a man, willing not only to be vulnerable, but to encourage other men to do the same.  There is validation, strength and connection in all of this.
I also value so much that growth often happens outside of our comfort zones and to do something while being afraid is drawing from courage and giving into the possibility of growth. I have come up with a term, “healthy risks” in my own life personally and professionally around this idea.  This has served me to take risks that are for my better good.   When I comfort zone push, whether it is with public speaking or taking on some new thing like parasailing, I notice my fears lessen and I start to find more safety and less fear.  The range of rewards is much broader than this and I value the sense that we are all human and in our own processes of growth and living.
As I reflect on this, I am reminded of a quote, “Don’t die with your music still in you,” by Wayne Dyer.  For me, this means to not let fear get in the way of putting oneself out there, to dream or intuition follow, versus doing nothing. To not stay small.   It takes courage to follow what is true to us and not let fear be the guide and truly put our own music out for others to hear.  This was one of my other take-aways with Steve, that even though he is an introvert, he put himself out there and in doing so continues to find his way with his dream of being a counselor in private practice.  I also found it metaphorical to the title of his practice, “Less than, No More.”
The Cookies
 Everything But the Lunchbox Cookies
When I reached out to Steve to ask about his favorite cookie ingredients or what he does not like, I chuckled with his response, “When it comes to cookies, you’ll hear no complaints from me. I do wonder why they bother to put expiration dates on the ones at the store. (they don’t seem to last that long around me).”  This allowed me freedom to explore beyond specific cookie ingredients because he just simply enjoys any kind of cookie.   I decided to try a recipe called, “Everything But the Lunchbox Cookies,” just because they sounded out of the ordinary and I was curious what they might taste like.
The special ingredients of this cookie make it unique with peanut butter, jelly, pretzels, chocolate and potato chips.  Things you might find in a lunch box for sure.  After baking the first batch, of course, I had to taste test.  I found the cookie a bit dry and loved how the raspberry jelly stood out, so I decided to double the jelly to make the cookie less dry and more tasty.
In baking these cookies, I learned something that was a little different in the general process of baking.  I placed the cookies on a baking sheet in the fridge to harden the cookie dough.  The recipe also called for me to move the cookies to different parts of the oven at different times during the baking process.  I liked how this baked them perfectly and so will likely use this tip again with other cookie recipes.
Steve’s feedback about the cookies was, “I would do the recipe again, I like the jam part and the peanut butter a lot. I like the chocolate chips.”  I also enjoyed the cookies and to make them even better, consider more jelly/jam on each cookie, than the recipe calls for.  You could also consider changing up the recipe by adding other kinds of chips, jelly or jam.  I definitely saved this recipe for later.  If you also bake it, please feel free to comment below.
Recipe:
Everything But the Lunchbox Cookies recipe:  https://www.delish.com/cooking/recipe-ideas/a65616646/everything-but-the-lunchbox-cookies-recipe/
We value your feedback and comments below.
More about Steve
Steve Donovan, MEd, LMHC
Less Than No More Counseling, because being less than was never the truth
1212 N Washington, Suite 302
Spokane, WA 99201 | Phone: 509-255-3056 | Email steve@lessthannomore.com
 https://www.lessthannomore.com/
About the Author
Suzanne Apelskog, MS, LMHC is the owner of Life’s Learning.  Suzanne has a vision around inspiring learning.  Learning is everywhere and can enrich our lives in big and small ways.
515 W. Francis Ave., Suite #5
Spokane, WA 99205
509-433-7755
SuzanneA@lifeslearning.org

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